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elv000 – I shoot loads of BMX and Skate stuff, and have never really found any issues using 1/200th. As long as you bump uf the flash power, you will not get any motion blur. After asking around a lot of friends who shoot BMX aswell, i only found one of them who even understood what HSS was. I don’t think it is a popular as you think. Most Skate and Bike photographers just tend to up the power or just throw in more lights. Just my 2p :)
Posted 3 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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HSS wont help to freeze motion, as it “pulses” the flash to cover the whole sensor as the shutter travels across it.
Better to use more power at sync speed or less and use the flash to freeze the motion.
Posted 3 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Thanks to all who provided informative reviews on this Pixel trigger.
As exciting as it sounds, it might very well worth waiting until other manufacturers come up with similar products. Pixel’s quality control/reliability issues and customer service are among some of my biggest concerns. I also think that the price is too high for a new product with such quality/reliability problem. When they first put it on Ebay the offering price was $138, and now almost $200. I also don’t particularly like the way they are selling it (by auctioning without Buy It Now option) – basically trying to reap as much profit as they could. If the initial price was $138 then the actual price is most likely around $90 (with some profit margin already). What is the justification of jacking up the price 100% (now almost $200) in less than a week?
Considering that Pixel’s facility is practically next door to Yongnuo (in Kowloon, Hong Kong), I won’t be surprised if Yongnuo will start selling similar product soon, perhaps even as early next year (overseas rumors). These Chinese companies have come a long way, and with more players/competitions in the market it will be more likely that they produce more reliable products with lower price.
Originally posted 3 weeks ago. ( permalink )
Creative Lightworks edited this topic 3 weeks ago.
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@ DPJ – I wasn’t saying that type of HSS is all that popular just answering the question of what its use is. If your balancing ambient light in there a higher shutter speed certainly can help get it crisp. Again thats not the (FP) HSS we were originaly talking about its just an added bonus.
I speak to many photographers, and one of the main features by far they like about Radiopopper PX and PW Mini-Flex is the FP HSS for portratis etc. If its not something your missing now though then its probably not going to be any great advantage.
@ Creative – Once you get to deal with some Chinese distributors you soon realise they have a completely different logic :)
Their main concern is more than likely bulk sales to resellers, and not direct retail sales. They have to get a few positive feedback before they can list “buy it now”. But I wouldn’t imagine their direct prices are going to be as competetive as the resellers anyway. They may stop selling direct altogether once the resellers are stocked up, who knows.
But regardless of all that I just want to know how they work!! ? :-)
.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Latest update, Nikon CLS will not be supported by Pixel TTL Trigger.
Again want to share:
It’s not means TR-331 bring to the endless innovation, but TR-331 does have a lot of features that Nikon can not do.
1, Remote distance
2, It can fire multiple flash with I-TTL function simultaneously for a distance
3,It support the original, deputy factory flash fire at the same time with I-TTL flash mode.
4, Studio lights can also be achieved the maximum sync speed to 1/8000S.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Thanks Michael, well that makes things simple :-)
Do you know if the -1 FEC on the slaves is meant to be like that?
And could I just confirm its not possible to set manual power levels on the flashes at all? (unless you connect them by the pc socket).
Thanks again.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Just got a set in hand today. Uses CR2 batts, which were not incl because of customs red tape for samples.
Two hours looking for CR2’s locally w/no luck. Ordered 2-day ship from AMZN, so will be testing by later this week. Until then, will read the instruction book!
-D
(Thanks again, Elv)
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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DH , eagerly awaiting your review!!
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Good stuff!
Its looking like TTL only though… Canon might be a bit luckier (for once) :-)
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Maybe you could build one of those potato batteries. ;-)
I got the last pair of CR2’s at my local drug store. They were about $10 each (that hurts).
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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For CR2’s, EBAY is your friend :-) I got 4 Duracell ones for £5, about $7.50.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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As I suspected (after hearing some overseas rumors), I just got a direct reply from Yongnuo confirming that they will soon release their own “fully functional iTTL/eTTL” wireless trigger for Nikon and Canon, which they claim will be “better and more economical” than Pixel’s. Perhaps it will fully support CLS, longer range with AAA battery? I don’t know but it’s a possibility considering that all their receivers are using AAA bateries so far. For those who are contemplating to buy Pixel trigger prolly better wait around a bit.
I think this is a very good news. Let the war begin!
Originally posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
Creative Lightworks edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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Interesting! Hopefully Yongnuo will be able to sort out some of the early teething problems of the Pixel models. As long as they work with the Nissin Di622, and cost around the same as the RF-602’s i’ll be happy. This could provide a seriously cheap solution for people to get OCF along with the added benefit of TTL.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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I wonder when they will release a device that takes all the light readings for you, positions your lights, gives the model instructions then takes the picture, as well as automatic PP?
I’d be willing to go as high as $45 for that.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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i tested with Nikon D90,D200,D300 in A,S,P mode, FP is ON, Nikon SB600(TTL mode) set as Slave on RX, SB800(TTL mode) set as Master on RX. , SB600 out of Sync, i swap the setting and test again,same, SB600 out of sync.
I informed to Pixel,but they said, not happen in their testing, anybody encounter this sync problem?
Originally posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
michaelchaint edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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Yes,i also change 6 different RX, and 3 different SB600, but same result, SB600 is out of sync. Both in Master and Slave.
But why the performance so consistence with 3rd party iTTL flash?
never fail..
Originally posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
michaelchaint edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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I believe Dennis has the same sync problem with his SB600. Read here:www.insidetheviewfinder.com/
Hopefully Yongnuo’s version won’t have this problem.
Originally posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
Creative Lightworks edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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I don’t think Dennis is testing with SB600,his pic shows that testing with SB800. so far no sync problem with SB800 for me,will update in this issue tomorrow if get any news as they said their engineers are very busy at the moment.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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I have tested with the SB800 and two different SB600 units.
I have not heard anything back from Pixel in the last couple of days either. The last thing they said was basically to stand by while they do some more testing. I got the impression that other customer(s) were having similar issues though Pixel states that they (Pixel) have not encountered this before.
It should not make any big difference (in theory) which flash is used but I will also say that the Yongnuo RF-602 can’t seem to wake up an SB600 but does wake up an SB800 from standby. Maybe there is some subtle difference in the way these two Nikon flashes work.
I’ve pretty much ran out of ideas to test. Intermittent function usually means battery or wiring issues.
Is your SB600 out of sync when used as a slave or as a master? (or both).
Has anyone been able to measure the trigger voltage?
Originally posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
Dennis Dixson edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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Hi friend,
I have the TTL flash triggert, it’s produced by our factory, but this product was been buyout by one customer.
So I can’t sell them to other buyer now, sorry.
But I can sell them one month later. : )
Thanks and best Regards,
hkyongnuophotoequipment
Originally posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
Selbosh edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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SB600 out of sync is both slave and master, no problem in manual.
of course,i changed the battery,and then i changed different RX and even TX combination. and reset all setting in camera and on flash too.
power off and mount and power on again.but same.
i don’t want to make any confuse,but i have to say that every new RX unit(take out from new box) can be sync two times at beginning taken shots,after these two shots then out of sync.
i mean very first two shots are in sync. i am quite lost at the moment,will try out more tmrw.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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A frustrating experience. I feel your pain.
I tried keeping a tally of successful shots, around 27%. Manual mode was only slightly better. I hoped that my TR-331 was the one rotten apple in the bunch.
How many units have you tested?
Originally posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
Dennis Dixson edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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A little OT to this thread, but not really. If they do turn out to be a wireless bridge for TTL only, it may make sense for those wanting that to simply get a long OCF TTL cord. Yongnuo makes one (10m, I bought it from the factory) but I do not know where to get them other than occasional eBay sellers.
Anyone know a retail source?
Thx,
DH
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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32 feet? Hmmm… When you subtract for the height of the stand and the photographer at the ends you are almost back to the working range for CLS. I guess a long cord might work better than straight CLS in bright sunlight.
I would probably be a nervous wreck whenever someone got within ten feet of the cord but it’s always nice to have a few extra tricks up your sleeve.
I still have not heard much mention of cost vs. value on these units. I guess it’s pointless anyway until the reliability is proven.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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: I’m assuming that you contacted the Ebay merchant/distributor for Yongnuo, which may not have the latest product information.
I contacted Yongnuo factory directly and received a direct reply from the manufacturer’s representative, basically confirming that they have their own version of iTTL/eTTL trigger which is different from Pixel’s, and currently under the testing phase. Once they are through she will have a more definitive release date to their distributors.
Assuming that she is not lying (any reason to?), then it’s safe to say that Yongnuo’s iTTL/eTTL triggers are different from Pixel’s. But since their facilities are practically next door to each other, who knows that they are “copying” each other’s work.
Regardless if they are or aren’t the same, I think it might be best to wait unless you are absolutely desperate of having iTTL/eTTL functions.
Originally posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
Creative Lightworks edited this topic 2 weeks ago.
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I have a set, with batts, and no time over the next few days. Wanna beta test? See main blog for how if in Balt/DC…
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Thanks David,
Atleast you can set FEC direct on the flashes! So setting up a ratios is no big issue. Then you can then dial one up and down from the camera.
That also means the Canon version will very likely let you set Manual power levels direct on the flashes.
I’m not sure about a long TTL cord for Nikon but Lon has them for Canon. Two of these is more than you’d need -
www.flashzebra.com/products/0125/index.shtml
The advantage of the cord is it allows you to IR trigger the slaves with full CLS etc, (great if your ganging a few together).
( www.michaelbass.blogspot.com will make up a custom cord )
I’m curious to know what the sync succes rate (and range) is if you connect straight to the PC sync port, as that would remove any TTL errors.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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i am like on roller coaster riding now, will update later the solution of SB600 sync problem.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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the solution of SB600 sync problem is that i need to send back all to them.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Ouch!…. thanks for updating us Michael. Has anyone else reported the same problem?
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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All the youngnuo stuff, including their 10m TTL cords, can be bought at their ebay store
stores.shop.ebay.fr/hkyongnuophotoequipment
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Haven’t been mooching here for a few days (waaaayy too busy at work). I am really not sure if these points have been covered, so flame me. And, my brain is fried, so I may have some of this wrong. Previous declaration of conflict of interest applies. Took a box load down to Bill (aperture-priority), who is a well technical guy and excellent photographer. He also didn’t know me before this, and aside from a ham sandwich, no inducement from me!
What we found (on his D300 and his SB-800’s and my SB-900’s):
Downsides:
# CR2’s (I had to say it, would have much prefered AAA’s). They didn’t expire on us, but they aren’t easy to get in a hurry at reasonable prices.
# No PC sync port on the TX, so no direct hooking up to a lightmeter. You could always use a hotshoe to PC adapter with PC cord built in. would have been nicer built in
# No test button on the TX. If you have a film camera, firing the shutter just to test for a lightmeter is a pain.
# The Rx would be better with a metal mount shoe.
So, that having been said.
In TTL mode you have the Tx set to TTL and one flash set to Master, the others set to Slave. The TX and Master Flash have bi-directional duplex comms. The camera shows any exposure adjustment you make on the flash. Supports all the CLS type stuff except groups. To set power ratios, adjust the flashes’ EV settings. Zoom etc all work.
In the manual mode, here’s the good part, it still syncs to 1/8000s. Bill took some shots with me outdoors (normal UK light cloudy daylight midday) at some silly shutter speeds and killed the ambient almost completely.
Yes some banding, but not a lot, above 1/2000, but only a bit. This is going to be great for Wedding Photographers and Studio Strobe users.
Bill will post his review independently of me, with no input from me, and maybe even some shots of fugly old me.
Trev
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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Looking forward to the real world results Trev and Bill, thanks for the input ;)
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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I’ve spent the last hour reading through this thing, and as skyport user, I think I’ll be waiting for the Youngnuo version. Just my .02 cents for someone too lazy to read.
Posted 2 weeks ago. ( permalink )
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As Trevor mentioned above, he popped down to see me with a box of these triggers to “kick the tyres” on them. Below is a review of my findings, it’s a bit long but hopefully helpful for those thinking of trying these out.
Thanks to Trevor for lending the toys to play with and buying me a great toasted club sandwich for lunch.
There are a few more things I’d like to try sometime, but I felt that I had got a good grasp of the way these should be used despite the Chinglish manual ;-)
Other than the sandwich above I have no commercial interest in these devices or any retailer of them, I provide this review as a service to the Strobist.com flickr group and for fun.
TR-331 Nikon Flash Triggers Review
Glossary
On-Camera trigger: The TR-331TX unit that connects to the camera hot shoe. The manual refers to this as the transmitter, I avoid this term because it both transmits and receives radio signals.
On-Flash trigger: The TR-331RX unit that connects to the flash hot foot. The manual refers to this as the receiver, I avoid this term because it both transmits and receives radio signals.
CLS: The Nikon Creative Lighting System. This is the sum of all flash photography features delivered by modern Nikon DSLR cameras and Speedlights and a few compatible third party camera and flash units.
AWL: The Nikon CLS Advanced Wireless Lighting System, a subset of the CLS functionality that allows groups of remote slave flash units to be almost fully controlled wirelessly from a master unit like an SB-800, SB-800, SU-800 and some DSLR bodies with a built in flash. Note that the triggering system being reviewed here doesn’t provide any of the AWL specific functionality.
i-TTL: The current Nikon Through The Lens automatic flash exposure system. Note that some of the i-TTL functionality is provided through the AWL system and that part (specifically the controlling and metering of independent groups of flashes) is not provided by the triggering system under review.
Master trigger: When using the triggering system in i-TTL mode, exactly one of the on-flash triggers must be configured as the master trigger. The significance of the master trigger is that it passes information back to the camera as if it were attached to the camera directly or via a TTL cord like an SC-29 or similar. The information passed back is not critical and includes the setting of the flash exposure indicator on the camera, the information about the flash to be inserted into the image meta data and the new filter data provided by the SB-900 when using the encoded matching correction gels.
Slave trigger: When using the triggering system in i-TTL mode all remote slave flashes except the one designated as the master must have their on-flash trigger configured as a slave trigger. The slave trigger tracks the settings passed from the camera to the master trigger but sends no information back to the camera (I assume this avoids ambiguity as the Nikon system only expects to see a single flash unit attached directly to the camera).
FP sync: This is the high speed flash sync mode that the CLS uses to enable flash photography at shutter speeds higher than the maximum sync speed of the camera’s focal plane shutter. This mode is technically not really flash photography at all, but is effectively continuous lighting. It is achieved by having the flash pulse at a low power and high frequency throughout the time that the shutter slit passes in front of the sensor. This mode requires that the flash starts pulsing before the shutter opens and continues to pulse consistently until the shutter has closed. One consequence of this mode is that lighting power is reduced from the levels available from a simple full power flash. Another consequence is that like other forms of continuous lighting, the exposure is dependent on the shutter speed selected as well as other parameters like aperture and sensitivity.
Hyper sync: (I believe this term was originated by LPA, the manufacturers of the Pocket Wizard triggering system) This is the term I use for a technique to make images at shutter speeds faster than the shutter’s maximum sync speed while still using a single high power (non-pulsed) flash. This method relies on the fact that the duration of a flash is roughly 1/1000s, so if the flash unit can be persuaded to trigger just before the shutter opens, the effect at shutter speeds of 1/1000s or faster is nearly equivalent to continuous lighting. This mechanism is advantageous because the full power of the flash is available so long as a shutter speed roughly equivalent to the flash duration is chosen. Another advantage is that dumb slave flash units (particularly studio flash units) can be used at fast shutter speeds. The main disadvantage is an slightly uneven lighting level across the frame and occasionally slight shutter blind shadows because the critical timing constraints are not always met. Sometimes this technique provides a benefit far greater than the disadvantages because it can allow flash photography in high ambient light levels, where wider apertures are required, and more costly (in terms of light loss) modifiers are required even at higher ambient light levels. Summing up, this trick can allow you to “beat the Sun” with relatively low powered flash units. As far as I know, no camera system provides this mode by design, this is tricking the system to achieve a specific result when very specific parameters are set.
Out of the Box
At first sight and touch the triggers have a nice feel and seem to be of reasonable quality and manufacturing standard.
The hot shoes are well made and accept the Nikon locking system on the on-flash trigger. This means that Nikon CLS flash units will attach well and lock positively and safely. The on-flash triggers have a very flimsy and thin plastic cold foot which I would not trust in long term usage, fortunately it is not necessary to use the foot as in the centre of it there is a threaded hole which is metal and suitable for screwing to a standard lighting spigot. The foot does have a screw collet to tighten down on it but as I said I would not trust it due to the thin material of the foot.
The on-camera trigger is more robust and also uses the screw down collet method to secure it. They have not reproduced the Nikon style locking lever but for a lightweight trigger this is not a problem.
CR2 batteries all around, I understand why as radio devices need higher voltages and size is a constraint. Nevertheless these batteries are expensive and sometimes hard to source in a hurry.
The on-camera trigger has one fairly major omission in my opinion, it has no test button or PC sync port. This means that using these triggers in combination with non TTL lights with a flash meter will be extremely inconvenient. Either the camera will need to be triggered to measure the lights or a spare on-camera trigger with a hot shoe to PC sync adaptor will need to be attached to your light meter. In one respect I can see that a trigger offering TTL features need not integrate with flash meters, but these triggers are clearly being targeted at non TTL and studio light users as well (they ship with a pair of PC sync to 3.5mm and PC sync to ¼” jacks for connection to most lights). Not all of those users will be happy with chimping their camera LCDs to get good exposures – particularly the film shooters!
Both the on-camera trigger and the on-flash trigger have a similar layout and control buttons. The on-flash trigger user interface is a little inconvenient as both the LCD display and the buttons are virtually inaccessible once a flash unit is attached to the hot shoe. This is not the most serious of issues as access to them is not necessary unless you wish to change the main operating mode. Nevertheless due to some occasional confusion during initialization it is helpful to see the LCD display to confirm the mode. In fact if the on-flash trigger were longer and stuck out further in front of the flash unit, there would be room to move the user interface to a more accessible location and maybe room for a pair of AAA or AA format batteries in place of the inconvenient CR2 format battery.
In Use
There are two fundamental modes of operation which are CLS compatible (i-TTL) and manual (M) respectively. The two modes are very different and to preserve your sanity all units should be in one or the other modes. Although it is possible to mix the modes, I don’t believe it is the intention of the designers that that should be done. Having said that, it is clear that each unit has both a transmitter and receiver built in and the on-camera trigger could easily coordinate and configure the on-flash triggers automatically to the correct mode. In fact I can see no reason for a mode setting on the on-flash triggers other than to enable one of them as a master when used in CLS compatible mode. This makes me believe that mixed mode operation may be a viable configuration but given that the manual doesn’t elaborate and that I only had access to the triggers for ½ a day, I avoided that can of worms altogether.
A word of warning seems prudent at this point. A few times the triggers seemed to get stuck in one mode while indicating the other mode, I’m not sure if this is them trying to be cleverer than the user or whether it is a system defect. The issue was apparent when the triggers were set to M (manual) mode yet the flash unit still behaved as if it were attached to the camera which is a feature of iTTL CLS compatible mode and vice versa. When this happened, powering everything off and re-powering in the recommended sequence cleared the discrepancies.
M (manual) Mode
This mode allows the system to be used with virtually any flash units. It should noted that this is more than just a dumb radio triggering mode because it allows flash sync up to maximum shutter speeds by coordinating hyper sync flash triggering. To get this mode, each trigger is configured to the M mode and the camera body (which must be a Nikon CLS compatible one) must have FP sync mode enabled if high speed sync is required. I didn’t have a chance to test this with a non-Nikon body but I suspect it either degrades to a simple dumb radio triggering system or just doesn’t work at all. Once the triggers and camera are configured, the CLS compatible flashes should be set to M or AA mode. This mode doesn’t do TTL metering as far as I can see. In this mode non-CLS lights like studio flashes can be triggered as well as CLS Speedlights. This makes the system quite versatile if you are happy to determine flash power, and hence exposure, manually (note the issue above about compatibility with flash meters).
The biggest win with this mode is the high speed syncing available. This works because Nikon CLS bodies send the flash fire signal fractionally before the shutter opens if they think they are attached to a CLS compatible flash unit (I guess this is orchestrated by the on-camera trigger). The other part of the formula for successful hyper sync is to trigger the flash units extremely quickly and this system seems to do that very well. With an SB-800 as a flash unit I found that a slight shutter curtain shadow occurred at the top of the frame (horizontal format) with shutter speeds greater than 1/2000s. The shadow takes up less than 10% of the frame even at the maximum 1/8000s shutter speed and would not cause a serious issue in normal usage as that area would almost certainly be ambient lit with the subject more central in the frame fully lit by the flash(es).
For comparison, currently I use the hyper sync trick by putting an SB-800 on camera at 1/128 power and pointing backwards (this is to get the camera into FP sync mode and hence fire the flash early), then using a PT-04 radio trigger attached to the SB-800 or camera PC sync port and another flash attached to a PT-04 receiver set to manual power, usually 1/1. This set up can be used up to around 1/1000s shutter speed with a more serious shutter curtain shadow (about 1/3 of the frame) at higher shutter speeds. I believe this larger shutter shadow to be due to the longer delays in the primitive PT-04 triggering system.
i-TTL Mode + Master
In this mode the triggers act as a bridge for all the hot shoe CLS signals, this mode is effectively a wireless version of a TTL cord (SC-29 etc.). The link behaves just like a TTL cord between the on-camera trigger and the on-flash trigger set in Master mode (I will cover additional slaves later). The communication is 2-way so the flash zoom responds to the lens zoom setting or focal length, the flash shows the ISO and aperture set on the camera and lens and if the flash exposure compensation on the flash itself is changed the camera indicator is set. I assume the new SB-900 automatic setting of WB when the Nikon correction gels are used on the flash also works as intended. So in this mode everything works as if the flash were on the camera hot shoe. I didn’t test it, but I assume the flash can be set as a CLS master (assuming it is an SB-800, SU-800, or SB-900) in the normal way and it could then control up to 3 groups of CLS/AWL remote slaves by the Nikon optical wireless mechanism (i.e. no TR-331RX triggers required for the CLS/AWL slave flashes).
i-TTL + Master + Slave(s)
So using i-TTL as a wireless TTL cord holds few surprises for those of us who have learned the basics of the CLS system on camera or TTL cord. But there is a further wrinkle that is more interesting, a second and subsequent CLS flash units can be added each with a on-flash trigger attached and set in Slave mode. These also behave as if there were on a radio TTL cord to the camera with one exception, the communication is one way only and there is no information passed from the slaves to the camera. This deals with the potential ambiguity in that the Nikon CLS system only supports one flash unit on a TTL cord.
At first glance this mode of operation seems to be of limited use in TTL mode because all the flashes meter and fire in unison, so you might expect flat even lighting as the only configuration. Fortunately this is not the case because each flash unit has an individual exposure compensation setting with a range of 6 f-stops in 1/3 f-stop steps (±3.0 EV). This is not as convenient as the Nikon CLS/AWL system where compensation is controlled centrally for up to 3 flash groups from the master controller, nevertheless walking around the lights and setting each in turn has been the traditional way of setting up lighting for many years and is not the hardest part of photography. I believe this mechanism for TTL multiple flash photography, while not quite as convenient as the Nikon AWL system, is worthwhile particularly when the limit of the optical triggering system’s range is reached (i.e. near line of sight between master and slaves). Radio signals have a slightly better direct range and perform far better around corners and through obstacles.
This mode of operation also supports high speed sync if the camera is configured for FP sync mode. In this case it is the Nikon FP sync mode using a pulsed flash burst rather than the single well timed hyper sync mechanism you get with the M (manual) mode. This FP sync mode gives a more reliable and even illumination at all shutter speeds above the maximum shutter sync speed at the cost of an f-stop or two of exposure. I would chose this mode of high speed sync by default until I was stumped by too high an ambient light level for the image I require, at which point I would consider switching to the slightly less consistent hyper sync mode available with the M (manual) mode of these triggers. Also the FP sync mode requires all the lights to be CLS compatible, so if I wanted high speed sync with non-CLS or mixed CLS and non-CLS lights, then the M mode hyper sync option is the way to go.
The i-TTL mode has one feature that will cause a few problems, because the full protocol between the camera and flash is relayed, the flash power zoom setting of each and every flash unit tracks the focal length of the lens. This is handy if you are using a bare flash on the hot shoe and is probably ok if you have a flash on a short TTL cord. Things get complicated if you have flashes to the side, much nearer the subject than the camera, lighting a background, fitted with grid spot attachments, or in modifiers like soft boxes or umbrellas. In these cases the choice of flash zoom setting has no bearing on the lens focal length. For example if you do portraiture using a 200mm lens you will be pretty unhappy about all your flashes zooming to the max. Zooming the flash manually cancels the automatic power zoom function but it is all too easy to re-enable by accident. I would recommend disabling the automatic power zoom function in the flash custom menu if you intend to use it off camera.
Range
The reliable range of a radio triggering system is hard to determine with any authority because interference and environment will always play a part. The manual claims 65m range which seems optimistic and certainly doesn’t support rock solid 100% reliable triggering. The mode of operation doesn’t seem to have any bearing on the range and we measured what seemed to be solid operation up to about 35m line of sight.
Conclusions
After this brief testing session I feel that as a mid-priced triggering system these have quite a lot going for them. The 2.4GHz radio signalling should be much more robust than the cheaper system’s UHF signalling, having said that LPA with their Pocket Wizards have proven that both range and reliability can be obtained with UHF systems as well. The 30m to 35m maximum range will not be enough for some users and I expect the same users might require a weather proof system as well which these are not. The easy achievement of hyper sync techniques with M mode are a big win and to me might be worth more than the advanced “wireless TTL cord” feature. I’m sure that some users would not be satisfied by anything less than a cheap radio based super reliable long range CLS/AWL system including power setting from the camera position, unfortunately I think they are bound to be disappointed unless they buy into the much more expensive Radio Poppers PX system which bridges the gap with a hybrid radio/optical system (as far as I know, Nikon do not provide the required information on the hot shoe/foot to design a radio only based system).
One thing is becoming clear to me, all the recent attempts to provide more advanced triggering by shoehorning clever features around older proprietary flash control systems are proving to be ever more unreliable and complicated. I suspect that until a sea change occurs, probably with some sort of imposed industry standard for signalling and features (think f-stops, shutter speeds, ISO sensitivity, film/sensor formats, image formats and such which have been nailed down a bit better) we are going to be scrabbling around with frustrating systems with low levels of compatibility across camera and light systems. Having said that we make do with what we have and find a system that meets the bulk of our individual requirements.
Bill
Posted 1 week ago. ( permalink )
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Thanks for the thoughtful post Bill.
And thanks for pointing out that CLS does NOT mean the same thing as “wireless”. I fear that educating the great unwashed about this fact is an uphill battle, but I appreciate you doing your part.
Posted 1 week ago. ( permalink )
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@ Bill – Thanks for the detailed review!
I still don’t get a sense of whether these are reliable and giving normal exposure results etc though?? (within say 30 metres (some TTL PW owners would be ecstatic with that range by the way :)).
Also with the “Hypersync” HSS are you always firing the speedlight at full power? As thats generaly the only way I could make that work with a speedlight (to get a long enough flash duration).
QUOTE – “I assume the flash can be set as a CLS master (assuming it is an SB-800, SU-800, or SB-900) in the normal way and it could then control up to 3 groups of CLS/AWL remote slaves by the Nikon optical wireless mechanism (i.e. no TR-331RX triggers required for the CLS/AWL slave flashes).”
As far as we know thats not the case, the master doesn’t work opticaly or via radio. You need a seperate receiver for every flash and no way of doing groups. In that sense a TTL cord has the advantage.
Not related to the review, but surely someone has to clear up the SB-600 issue Michael reported?? He’s sending them all back, so what is someone buying now to expect?
Posted 10 days ago. ( permalink )
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elv0000 wrote
Not related to the review, but surely someone has to clear up the SB-600 issue Michael reported?? He’s sending them all back, so what is someone buying now to expect?
If someone is near me (Chipping Campden, South Midlands, UK) with SB600’s, I am happy to pop over and test these out with them.
Posted 10 days ago. ( permalink )
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Throughout the tests in all modes etc. there were no misfires at all at close ranges of a few meters. The mode of operation seemed to have no bearing on range, just when the range was extended out past 30m misfire started to occur.
I used full power at 1/1000s, I tried lower powers with the higher shutter speeds without issues. Obviously choosing a lower power with 1/1000s will cause a big shutter curtain shadow because the flash will be quenched long before the shutter traversal is complete.
In iTTL mode the master appears to work exactly as if on a TTL cord, although I didn’t try it I’m fairly sure that strobe can be put into CLS master mode mode and control other CLS/AWL slaves. Thus you would have a hybrid set up with the master being hooked up to the camera by the Pixel triggers and the secondary slave being controlled in Nikon CLS/AWL mode in groups as normal. Maybe someone with a couple of CLS strobes and a pair of these triggers could try it out.
HTH
Bill
Posted 10 days ago. ( permalink )
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That was very informative. Thanks for taking the time to write up your findings. Your definitions are very helpful but I feel that some people are still going to misunderstand what you are saying in spite of the effort you put into explaining it.
I have to agree with elv0000, about the CLS comment. It seems like something you guys would have tried to confirm since you had the proper Nikon units to act as commanders.
The lack of a test button and sync on the TX unit are a pain and I had not even thought of using film cameras where it would really be frustrating.
No issues with proper sync? The range seems to be about half the advertised capacity but may be affected by local RF interference.
Your final conclusion is spot on. Everything on the market (or coming to it) seems to be a work-around for the legacy CLS system and not always very good at it.
Originally posted 10 days ago. ( permalink )
Dennis Dixson edited this topic 10 days ago.
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Thanks again Bill.
Regarding the Master mode controller, that’s basicaly what we spent 3 pages here speculating :-) and so far no success. That would open up a lot of options even if its just IR to the slaves but it doesn’t appear to work that way in any form so far.
Posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
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OK, well as I said we didn’t try that combination as we had limited time. I’m still a little surprised it doesn’t work because it looked to me as if the Pixel triggers were simply doing a dumb relay of the data between the hot shoe and strobe on the master trigger. I suppose it is possible that they are decoding the info and rebuilding it at the other end but I can’t see why they would do that as it gains nothing for them.
Unfortunately is a couple of hours drive away so doing further testing is not that straightforward which is why I suggested someone else might be able to try that combination.
Bill
Posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
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Thanks Bill, I suspect they have deliberately disabled it so it doesn’t mess up communication between their own master/slave set up.
Anythings possible though still, their auto translated instructions could mean anything. Why would they have a work around to ge tthe master menu on the flash to appear if its disabled anyway?….. still seems a bit strange.
Posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
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Hi folks. Some news then.
The Rx’s have had a few changes:
# The SB-600 issue has been acknowledged and fixed.
# There are now opto-isolators (?) on the circuit board to protect the PC port from high voltage flashes. As these older flashes would not benefit from shoe mounting (lack of TTL), this is ideal.
Any other changes would be future ones.
I think I have persuaded them to sell these in a nice carry case instead of that huge (and mainly empty) box. A real English manual re-write is underway.
Trevor
Originally posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
CotswoldPhoto edited this topic 9 days ago.
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Hello guys,i came across this thread and i wanted to ask you some questions.As i understood some of you people are in contact with the company that makes this stuff so…
Are they actually going to sell them for a definite price rather than wait people for bidding?
Is there some way to convince them getting rid of those annoying CR2 batteries and make them run on AA?
Thanks:)
Posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
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Elv and others
thanks for all the info on this system.
I’m planning on trying these on my canon system when offered
any change on the shipping late Dec?
TIA
Don
Posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
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Hi folks. I have confirmation from the boss at Pixel that most (if not all) of the changes I have suggested will be made, some sooner than others (including the battery thing).
I suspect they may well try to implement many changes before volume starts. The Canon one will probably wait for this, but who knows?
For those of you with eagle eyes, you may also have noticed the new (but not yet produced):
# LiveView remotes (cabled and wireless)
# 8 x AA battery flash power packs:
# TD-381 Canon Flashgun Power Pack for 550/580
# TD-382 Nikon Flashgun Power Pack for SB-900
# TD-383 Nikon Flashgun Power Pack for SB-800 et al
# TD-384 Sony Flashgun Power Pack for HVL-F56AM
# 2.4GHz simple wireless flash triggers:
# TF-361 Canon Wireless Flash Trigger
# TF-362 Nikon Wireless Flash Trigger
# TF-363 Canon Wireless Flash Trigger
Interesting times, even if these simpler triggers still have CR2, but we’ll see what a bit of arm twisting can do!
Posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
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Let’s hope these things will turn out to be reliable.
Im sick of praying god to make my flash pop when i want to :D
BTW,those wireless TTL triggers look very interesting.
LCD display,nice horizontal design rather than vertical(so the mounting shoe is not that stressed anymore) and hopefully we will get FP sync(good thing) and some more stuff.
Keep the news coming,im just waiting for a price.
Posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
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That huge and mostly empty box probably helps protect the things in shipping. I think a case might be a good option but I’m not sure I would want to pay extra for that.
I thought the manual was actually pretty good, much better than the sales “features” information.
Was there any specific information on the SB600 issues? I wish someone from Nikon could explain the difference is between the SB800 and SB600 inner workings. I think there are probably going to be many more people using the SB600.
Thanks for the follow-up.
Posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
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Dennis Dixson The current production has the firmware updated to fix the SB600 problem.
Posted 9 days ago. ( permalink )
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HAH, round trip to Hong Kong for firmware updates anyone?!?
Posted 7 days ago. ( permalink )
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Please add a USB port to the wish list :-)
From what I’m hearing I think we can rule out the remote master, via IR or Radio (for the moment anyway).
Still no more sellers on ebay? Interesting to see where the price will settle.
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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Hoping for $150 for 3 receivers. = double the poverty trigger price.
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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Jiakgong a.k.a. DSLR-Kit have them. Also on their website at dslrkit.com/
This might be them too: www.flickr.com/photos/jiakgong/
Originally posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
Selbosh edited this topic 6 days ago.
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Great review Bill
“Hyper sync:. This method relies on the fact that the duration of a flash is roughly 1/1000s, so if the flash unit can be persuaded to trigger just before the shutter opens, the effect at shutter speeds of 1/1000s or faster is nearly equivalent to continuous lighting”
the reason hyper sync works is that full power flash duration is very long more like 1/125 – although it has decayed quite a bit by the end, at shorter durations say 1/500 the flashes can approximate a continuous light but there is still some uneven lighting
at a high shutter speed of say 1/1000, it still takes around 2 msec (1/500) for the shutter to cross the sensors, even though each part of the the sensor is illuminated for 1/1000 of a second by the gap between the ront and rear curtain
with FP sync mode, the flash is fired more than a 1 msec before the front curtain even begins to open and keeps firing well after rear curtain has closed
i suppose this is to accomodate slow shutter legacy cameras
ideally, if you trigger the flash right when the front curtain opens and turn it off right when the rear curtain closes and use full power from the speedlight you get optimum hypersync
most dumb radio triggers work in this mode because the transmit delay is pretty close to producing this affect
pocket wizard appears to allow you to program this delay
www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/technology/hypersync_fp…
pocket wizard also appears able to control the start and end of the normal high speed sync mode flash – i know with Nikon – the HSS flash is firing much too long for the modern DSLR’s – so in theory there should be a fair increase in number of shots you can get from a set of batteries
i find LPA’s claim that you get a brighter light using the miniTT1 in optimized HSS mode since 1) it appears the intensity of the flash is preset in the flash 2) if it was indeed brighter, it would have such a gain in efficiency for the batteries
www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/technology/fp_sync_hss/
if the TR331 is indeed a wireless SC-28 cord, that does open up some possibilities
1) as everyone keeps conjecturing – the master flash could act as a master with AWL for the slaves which would be very handy
i find it humorous that we still don’t know if this is possible
2) the TR331 system could read the settings from the master flash and relay the slave settings through RF – although it sounds like Pixel has not implemented this
Originally posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
purdyd edited this topic 6 days ago.
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^ Quote – ” i find it humorous that we still don’t know if this is possible”
That’s one way of describing it :-)
My covert inside sources say its a no go.
So add that to the wish list as well please :-)
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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Oh well,180$ for a couple of chinese plastic things we don’t yet know if they’ll work…
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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Yep, and Yongnuo iTTL/eTTL version is coming out soon, perhaps better quality/functionality and price than Pixel. Better wait around, IMO.
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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Yes,im sure i don’t want to be one of their “beta testers”.
Let’s wait a bit more,i hope each company will put out a competitive product.
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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Creative Lightworks wrote
Yep, and Yongnuo iTTL/eTTL version is coming out soon, perhaps better quality/functionality and price than Pixel. Better wait around, IMO.
No time soon I am afraid. They are just starting to think about it.
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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That’s better,perhaps they’ll think about a nicer way to make them work.
Im thinking about AAA power,cheaper,bit more reliable,maybe with an USB port so you can tweak your Hyper sync setting to suit any need.
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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as long as we are discussing other vendors, the 800 lb gorilla might be Nikon
www.google.com/patents?id=URLHAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstr…
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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We are trying to verify that the hybrid Pixel/CLS setup, using radio to control the CLS master and the CLS master to control slaves with the optical CLS protocol, is in fact disabled. We have some evidence that the radio link does indeed decode the hot shoe data and recode it at the remote end, this means that Pixel could have chosen to not implement any part of the protocol. As far as we understand, they have tried to emulate an SB-900 with the on-camera device, i.e. the camera is fooled into thinking it has an SB-900 attached.
Even if the hybrid mode is disabled, it should only be a firmware programming issue to enable it assuming that the processors they have used in the triggers have enough processing power available to do the extra work. Of course such a mode might not be that useful, after all the whole point of radio triggers is to move away from potentially range limited optical communications;-)
HTH
Bill
Posted 6 days ago. ( permalink )
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How long has it taken to receive your TR-331 Nikon Flashgun I-TTL Trigger once ordered. Is there any vendors State side that have them in stock. Going on a shoot in Africa and these would com in handy.
Posted 2 days ago. ( permalink )
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The Following is a collection of first-hand impressions from Don Harper, a professional photographer in Virginia in the US. I lent him the TR-331’s to test over a few days:
__________
Pixel Enterprise Limited Flashgun TTL Trigger
TR-331RX and TR-331TX
DSLR accessories.
Small footprint
Receivers has cold shoe and light stand mounting.
They also have locking pc cord output for non-ttl strobes such as those for a studio.
You need to configure and turn on the receiver prior to mounting the strobe as it makes access to the two buttons difficult to reach and obscures the digital display. If buttons and display at front of unit they would be accessible.
Transmitter has hot shoe mounting and prevents the use of an on camera flash unless placed on a bracket and triggered from the pc connector or the strobe is mounted on a camera bracket and triggered through one of the pixel receivers. There is not PC connector on the transmitter and no pass-through hot-shoe.
I am an Nikon shooter and currently use the D3 and D300s as my primary cameras outside of the studio. My event strobes are the D-800, D-900; and for accent lights I frequently use an assortment of Nikon strobes like the SB-22S and SB23 plus all sorts of other older inexpensive strobes off camera. I use pocket wizards to control strobes as I’ve never been happy with the Nikon IR communication system. I would rather forego i-ttl in favor of adjusting light output manually and having reliability.
In the studio, I use Broncolor and Visatec mono lights with other hot lights, and may throw in some of the Nikon’s when desired. Studio lighting may be one light or eight or more when I’m having fun. I also use candle-light and like to paint with light. We are in the process of preparing to migrating from our current lights to ProPhoto.
Most captures in the studio are via tethered and wireless shooting to a computer and high jpeg instead of RAW. The camera mode is manual, color-space is Adobe RGB and color temperature is set in degrees Kelvin.
Outside of the studio my default mode is aperture priority, shooting RAW, auto color temp and once again Adobe RGB. I also use shutter priority primarily when I’m interested in capturing the energy of movement and once again manual for formals for portraits and formals at wedding with off-camera flash. I infrequently use the program mode. My ISO selections are all over the spectrum, I love the versatility.
I’m quite comfortable with the pocket wizards, but would be happy to save some time with i-ttl metering if it’s reliable, hence the Pixel’s.
I received the units on Friday afternoon and surprise went through the manual. They appeared easy to configure with a push button for power and a second push button for one of three modes (Master, Slave, Manual). There is an LCD display that show the mode selected and channel selected. Channel selection is via the use of both the power and set buttons used simultaneously. There is also a blinking blue light that appears to show successful communication between the transmitter and receiver.
I did a quick test of the transmitter on the Nikon D3 and an SB-800. The communication looked ok but the image was a tad over-exposed compared to the same setup with the strobe mounted to the hot-shoe. I did confirm that pressing the camera shutter release would wakeup the strobe and activate the IR focus system. Looked like a snap and so off to my Saturday wedding in our small snow weather event; this is northern Virginia and so unlike our northern neighbors people freak, but the bride was fine with the weather. Time pressure due to the late start prevented me from trying something new at the church for formals. At the venue which is wonderful I was ready to try our new toys. The venue named Raspberry Plain is a historic home just north of Leesburg with a very large glass conservatory for receptions. In fact the conservatory is about 3600 open square feet. Perfect place for some off-camera lights to add dimension to pictures as it was now nighttime. I setup an SB-800 with a pixel receiver on a 10 foot light-stand and started testing, nothing fired. I found that the blue light was confirming communication but the strobe didn’t respond, switched strobes with the same result. At different points I switched receivers, confirmed the receiver was on the correct channel and in master mode and also tried manual mode. No results, and time to move on to tried and true before clients thought I had problems. My associate was making sure nothing was missed, but I never want clients to have a perception that we aren’t in total control.
Well, the next step was testing at home and the studio.
First step was a pretty simple setup. I placed the SB-800 on the coffee table aimed at some decorative candles and visible in the viewfinder. First few shots the strobe did fire, but at way to high a light output and a blown-out photo, although it didn’t sound like a full energy dump. A couple more and than it started giving me results closer to what I would expect, but not as precise as the strobe controlled through a SB-28 cable.
At the studio I setup a small candelabra with two strobes on light-stands. A SB-900 was setup at camera left 45 degrees and an SB-800 behind the scene at 135 degrees and blocked (gobo) from camera view but acting as a kicker.
I observed that the IR focus beams would activate and both strobes did fire. The pixel receivers were setup as master and slave per the instruction manual. The strobes need to be in normal mode, you can’t turn on the Nikon Master and Slave controls to remotely adjust light output. If the strobe mode is changed the Pixels won’t fire the strobe.
I found that the strobe duration was a bit to long and did not appear consistent from capture to capture resulting in images that were slightly overexposed. I have a reference photo taken with the standard Nikon ittl-system.
I did not test the high shutter speed mode, I did tests at the full range of ISO speeds for the D3 and didn’t see a problem introduced by the need for longer or shorter light durations.
Distance, everyone wants to know distance, can I fire the strobe from here to the moon?
My distance test was very basic, I had my associate walk down the sidewalk through the snow and when she was just a dot in my 70-200mm at 200mm starting firing and walking towards her until the strobe would fire. It was about 180 feet and this was straight line of sight outdoors with no obstructions.
I would like to go back to Raspberry Plain in the daytime and spend some time trying to see what happened but I need to return the units. Maybe trying more channels would solve the problem.
If I were going to improve the design of the units I would move the buttons and LCD display to the front away from the hot shoe on the receiver to allow configuration without removing the strobe. I would add a pass-through hot-shoe to the master unit.
For now, I will stick with my pocket wizards but it’s easier for me to justify the cost because of volume of work that we do at our studio. The i-ttl response wasn’t accurate or predictable enough for me to switch.
Don Harper
The Edge Photography Studio
and Arlington-Photographer.com
I
Originally posted 8 hours ago. ( permalink )
strobist (a group admin) edited this topic 6 hours ago.
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Just a quick question. As far as manual says – in iTTL mode camera communicates to the flash distance to the subject. Can it be, that putting flash on a RF remote (or for the sake of it – on a very long TTL cord) – flash would be much closer to the subject than the camera, and thus get a wrong distance to the subject? That would explain exposure inconsistencies? Any ideas, anyone?
Posted 64 minutes ago. ( permalink )
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I found another Chinese cheap trigger:
Triton-RT-16-16-Channel-Studio-Flash-Trigger on ebay but couldn’t find any comments on it. Anyone had any experiences? How it compares with Yongnuo RF-602 or Pixel? Thx.
Originally posted 39 minutes ago. ( permalink )
a32567801364768 edited this topic 38 minutes ago.
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IDA Grandas-Rhee by orbis ringflash
Performance ‘FLOW’The Diary – CONTACT IMPROV SEOUL
Performance ‘FLOW’ 1+1=11 by IDA Grandas-Rhee and Jane Rhyu
Casey Carlson with ABR800
